[00:00:02] Speaker A: Welcome to Big Ticket Pros, the podcast for agencies, coaches and high end service providers who know what it takes to thrive in competitive markets. I'm your host, Josh Thomas. You can find me on all social media at jt literally. Our guests share insider tips, strategies, and sometimes cautionary tales to help you close bigger deals and scale business faster. Big Ticket Pros is sponsored by Conversational Funnels, the new way to close deals in 2025 that doesn't rely on any of the old traditional methods everyone hates. We use this method to book 121 qualified sales calls in 10 days without any ad spend, outreach or endless social posting. Download the free step by step blueprint that shows exactly how we did
[email protected] once again, that's conversationalfunnels.com today's guest is Jason Cannigan. He is a former corporate executive turned business systems expert who's been a high ticket closer, team trainer and process improvement specialist for companies in space and defense. Jason, welcome to Big Ticket Pros. What is the best piece of advice you would give to someone just starting out in your industry?
[00:01:15] Speaker B: Right. Hey, Josh, appreciate the chance to be on. So, yeah, just looking at it kind of globally. If you're going to be in sales in any field, I really recommend you learn how to qualify. Qualify. That is the very first thing you should do. And that means filter for people who should be sort of in your offer, connected to it and people who shouldn't. What I see that is the mistake is that new people in sales and even experienced people, they learn all about the features and benefits of what they're offering and they think that's why people buy. And so whenever they meet, like, oh, it's Josh. Josh is a prospect. They don't filter to see if Josh is a good fit or not. They just start bl the. The vomit of features and benefits, right. The fire hose comes out. So I really recommend you learn how to qualify.
[00:02:02] Speaker A: I'd like to show you my brochure.
[00:02:05] Speaker B: Right.
Can't have brochure without the bro.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's qualifying is. I mean, if you're not talking to the right guy, it doesn't really matter. Nothing else really matters, you know, like, you really don't need to sell me, you know, feminine hygiene products. Wrong guy, you know, gotta qualify. Do what?
[00:02:33] Speaker B: It's not gonna fit.
[00:02:36] Speaker A: Well, it's not that kind of podcast, man.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: So.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: But, but yeah, the right idea. So there's a lot of different ways to do it. You know, Cole Gordon has his Kind of, I forget what he calls them, but it's like the decision making beliefs. I believe that's called it. And I had a modified version of that I called the spider method. And everybody's kind of got like their list of things. I had somebody talk about their qualifiers being the functional, the internal and the external or something like that. I'm curious if you have like a mechanism that you take people through to like check off to make sure they actually are qualified before you pitch them.
[00:03:18] Speaker B: Yeah, so this, this was taught to me a long time ago. I paid for Sandler sales training years and years and years ago before I became a sales trainer and got into the field. Because I realized one day I didn't know why I got some orders and not others, despite being a sales guy for 10 years and being generally known as good at it. So, so what they teach and what I teach is three things. And you can just get a piece of paper and write this down.
Need, budget and personality fit. And it's, it's really that simple. The first thing is do they have a problem that you can solve and they have to admit having it?
It's like if you don't know, you know, and this, this could be a symptom as opposed to like a root cause or something like that, but something that, to give you like that pain point, you know, that the reason to continue talking. The second thing is, is the problem large enough to warrant my involvement. So at one point I operated a lead generation agency for commercial roofers. And we did about 800,000 a year off of about 23 clients. So we did really well and we had excellent retention.
This is commercial roofing, not residential roofing. The jobs are 50,000 to $1 million. So, you know, I don't want a guy who's got two barrels of goop in a truck as my client. Like that's not good enough, right? That guy's not going to be stable. He's not going to be able to make the investment.
You know, I would like to spend, I could spend easily $3,000 on getting a pretty good phone call with a property owner right in that field. So that's, that's an idea here. I want somebody who can invest 5, 10,000amonth somewhere in there comfortably. Not a guy who's, oh, I don't know if I should do this. You know, I got $2,000 here, right? And they sign up for one month and then they'll say, well, I didn't get instant results, so I can't be, you Know, I continue to be a client. Well, that's a waste of effort for everybody.
[00:05:05] Speaker C: Right?
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Right. So you learn to qualify those people out and that's on budget. That's not just are they breathing and have a dollar in their jeans, but do they have a problem that's large enough to warrant your involvement? And then that third element of fit is personality. Where can I work with you or. Well, I've had some experience. Now are you doing something, saying something, behaving in a way like my last client from hell did.
[00:05:31] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:31] Speaker B: I better call you on it.
[00:05:33] Speaker C: Right?
[00:05:33] Speaker B: Josh, I don't know. I can't really put up with you screaming at me like you just did to your subcontractor who walked in the room.
[00:05:39] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: If you're going to behave like that, we can't work together. Right. So, you know, and the guy's either going to tell me, get lost, you know, I am who I am, or oops, I didn't even know I did that. I'm so sorry.
[00:05:49] Speaker C: Right.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: And so you can get very far in a good discovery process. Just writing down need budget, personality fit, you know, a third of the way each down your page and writing the answer.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: And it's so simple. And that's, that's the thing. It's like sometimes we over complicate it. It's like, yeah, there's other things that are, that are under those umbrellas, but if we just keep those in mind, those are the three big ideas.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: And well, then you can get excited when you've got check mark, check mark, check mark.
[00:06:19] Speaker C: Right.
[00:06:20] Speaker B: Like, like I say, qualify with as little emotion as possible. Divorce yourself from, from the emotion. Right. But when they are in that fit zone, need, budget and personality fit, they have a problem you can solve and they know it. The problem's large enough to warrant your involvement. And you can do this as a ratio of price.
[00:06:37] Speaker C: Right.
[00:06:38] Speaker B: People like to invest 5% of the size of the problem, I'll tell you, in the solution. That's a very easy. Yes, but you have to lead them to the value of the size of the problem. You can't tell them. And then if the personality fit is good, yeah, get excited. This is a person that you want to work with, right. They're going to, they're going to enjoy working with you. So that's when you can bring out, well, okay, now I have all these features and benefits of my program or solution or whatever that, that can help you and they're relevant.
[00:07:04] Speaker C: Right.
[00:07:05] Speaker B: I think relevance is one of the most ignored, misunderstood words Right. Because if you're relevant, right, People will listen. The moment you are relevant to that audience, people will listen to you for hours. Like the, the guy who's talking about investing in, in precious metals when times go bad or something like that, right? Yeah. As long as they're relevant to that like 55 year old man who's staring retirement in the face and has some money to invest and it's like, I don't know, right. They'll listen for hours hoping that, that that guy will give them a nugget that they haven't heard before.
[00:07:40] Speaker C: Right.
[00:07:40] Speaker B: So relevance is really important. And when you have need, budget, personality.
[00:07:43] Speaker A: Fit and I think that that's something that we, is, is, is well overlooked. I did this thing for a while talking about setting goals and I like the smart framework and specific, measurable, achievable, relevant time boundaries. And I think a lot of people really don't understand the relevance part of it. And the way that I always described it was okay, well why do you have this goal? So you can get XYZ benefit? That's what creates the relevance. You know, like why would I listen to this guy? So I can understand, you know, have a better life, you know, be taller, you know, get, get prettier women, grow more hair on my head. Whatever it is that I'm trying to accomplish, the benefit of that, that's the relevance of it. And, and that's one of the things that, you know, I can, I can stand and be the best possible salesperson, but if it's not relevant to that person, there's no, there's no point. And that's really where a strong offer comes in. Because the offer is speaking to that relevant audience and it's, and it's canceling everybody else out.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: Yep, yep. Well, well said. And people should be coming to you for help. You know, I've known you for a number of years. You're one of a few people who I'll actually talk to and take advice from because I know you know what you're talking about. And I think, I think the biggest benefit of working with you is that you will do what you say you do.
[00:09:08] Speaker C: Right.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: I've seen it time and again. So that's, that's fun and that's kind of a rarity out there, sadly.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: Well, well, let me ask this, this is another thing that I know is really important to you in, and it's something I 100% agree with, warming them up before you actually have the conversation. And this is, this is something like along the same lines of what we were just talking about. Sales really shouldn't be much more than closing the loop on great marketing.
And it might be a little controversial to say that, but if your marketing up channel is good, the sale part of it should just be fun.
And I want to hear what your thoughts are on that marketing warmup.
[00:09:57] Speaker B: So as a, as a high ticket closer and trainer of many guru sales teams over the years, I think of a couple of examples. One was early on when I ran a third party closing as a service business early in that, that sort of life cycle of that sort of offer with a friend and we got a real estate type offer.
It was a few thousand bucks, I think $4,000 or something like that. But they had an excellent warm up funnel on replacing your mortgage, right. With a, with another device that would allow you to pay it off in, in just a few years instead of 20. And their warm up sequence was a book and it had along with it a number of 2 minute or so videos and a playlist with bloopers in them by the founders. And they were funny, right? Like, and that was the first time I noticed because I'm a long form content guy. Wow. I and other people would happily sit there and watch 20 of these two minute videos in a row. Right. Not without meaning to get into it, right. I'll just watch one or two and then, oh, this is interesting. Right now I'm watching the whole playlist as opposed to one giant 40 minute or one hour sit down.
[00:11:08] Speaker C: Right.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Like the time commitment might be the same, but that, that warm up sequence with those two minute videos was really effective. And so when people got on with me as the closer, I think you would be shocked at how fast they gave me personal financial information.
Debts, screw ups, right? Stuff. They wouldn't even tell their own mother. Why? Because I'm positioned as the doctor. They've been warmed up correctly to know that this is the truth.
[00:11:35] Speaker C: Right.
[00:11:35] Speaker B: This method is factual, it works and they want to get in and so they kind of have to.
[00:11:40] Speaker A: And more than that though, one thing that I think is more important is it, it's, it's very important to share the information. But more than that, they're sitting with you and they're getting to know you. And if they know you, they can decide if they like you and trust you. And a lot of that, if that can just be taken care of before they ever meet you. Because if they don't have any of that warm up content, then the warmup starts as soon as they pick up the phone and now you're already behind.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: Right. That's a good point to raise, which I kind of forgotten about. But on another funnel that I sold a lot of people into for starting an agency business, kind of giving them the template and the SOPs, and then excellent coaching by four different subject matter area coaches to get involved with this thing. We had a warm up sequence that was pretty good for that. And webinar, I would send them an email with the pricing ahead of time. I would, I would give them the range of what it was in.
And so, you know, a lot of people would think, oh, that might scare people off. For me, it really, it really worked well. But I would also send them a video, minute and a half, two minutes of me. And the reason for that was, as you pointed out, the, the audience is used to the founders of the offer, the offer creators. Right? They're the front men or women for the product or the offer.
[00:13:01] Speaker C: Right.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: And they're the ones they're used to seeing in the Facebook group, in the lives and the webinars or whatever. So who's this Jason guy?
[00:13:08] Speaker C: Right?
[00:13:09] Speaker B: And so what we had to do was we learned this early on back in like 2017, de celebritize the founders and celebrities, the closer that they're going to talk to. And you can do this with a minute and a half, two minute video and a, an email, right, Saying, hey, this is the guy you're gonna meet. This is a little bit about him and hi, I'm Jason and I'm personable and all this. And here's why I want to meet with you. Right. And so that would enable them to get on the call. And now, you know, I did nearly all of them live like this on, on Zoom.
They're used to seeing me. They know, oh, it's the ball guy. Yeah. Okay.
[00:13:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:13:49] Speaker B: And we're cool, right? There's none of this. Well, who are you? I thought I was going to meet with Josh. Right. You know, or something like that.
[00:13:55] Speaker C: Right.
[00:13:55] Speaker A: We call it, it's, it's funny. I have my, my partner Anna, who is a very attractive Mexican lady and we, they'll book a call on our podcast and we both, we both do it and we're around Robin. And so whenever, whenever you see a hot girl and then you end up with the dude, they call it catfishing. And so when you reverse it and you think that you're meeting with a dude and you get the hot girl instead. We, we came up a name with it for. We call it Trouting.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: The better fishing.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Right. So, Jason, tell us what you're, what you're doing now and who should connect with you and how we can do it.
[00:14:33] Speaker B: Yeah. So I want to work with business owners who are at a certain level, you know, probably 30, 40,000amonth and are comfortable with that, but know that they can do better and know that they're missing things like processes, systems. If you've ever had a, a very good VA or, or executive who you had hired to work with, you quit. And then all that institutional knowledge went out the door.
[00:15:02] Speaker C: Right.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: And it's gone forever.
[00:15:03] Speaker A: Right.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: No exit interview, nothing. Right.
And you don't ever want that to happen again. Then we need to talk.
I guess another situation could be. I'm working with a trucking company right now doing about 7 million a year out of Maryland, and they found me from my blog, of all things, the one that I've had up for 10 years, salestactics.org and every time a customer called them, they got a different experience depending on who answered the phone. So there was maybe a little bit of sales training or no sales training depending on the person. And so the whole process was different, how they answered the phone, what the expectations were, what happened. And so cleaning that up, giving those members of that sales team consistency, right? And that experience from the customer to be consistent. That's, that's something we're doing, identifying which services are the money makers.
[00:16:01] Speaker C: Right?
[00:16:01] Speaker B: You got that 80, 20 rule, right? Let's, let's make 20% of our income comes, you know, 80% of our income comes from 20% of our services offered. Right. So they, and I mean, a lot of the time the presidents that I talk to tell me, oh yeah, yeah, I knew that, but you know what? We just hadn't done it.
Well, my suspicion is if you think you knew it, but you didn't do it, you probably didn't know it or you would go, damn, I have to make time for this. Right? So that's right, make me be the, the evil taskmaster. As friendly as I am to get this stuff done. Where you're like, yeah, I know we can do better. I know we can have improvements in that. But you don't need to rob from operating expenses to pay for the improvements. Okay? You should have cash on hand where investing in me and the solutions to make your company more valuable, because that's what it's going to like, do.
You'll be able to take the SOPs and that to the business valuators and they'll go, holy crap, you actually have this stuff and your valuation will go up. Then that's the time to come to me and you can go to jasoncannigan.com to start that process off.
[00:17:13] Speaker A: Very good. Well, hey, we're going to wrap up from here. Thanks so much to our guest, Jason Canigan for coming on and showing some sharing some wisdom about what it takes to get the sale done before the sale even starts. And so you can learn more about what he does by visiting jasoncannigan.com if you are an agency coach, professional service provider or otherwise sell expensive stuff, we'd love to have you on a future episode. You can
[email protected] and once again, if you want to learn about the new way we're booking dozens of qualified calls per week with no ad spend, download our free
[email protected] that's all for now. Go get that big ticket punched.
